Press This: How Girls Can Thrive With WordPress That includes Sam Munoz

by | Jun 9, 2022 | Etcetera | 0 comments

Welcome to Press This, the WordPress team podcast from WMR. Proper right here host David Vogelpohl sits down with guests from around the team to discuss crucial issues going thru WordPress developers. The following is a transcription of the authentic recording.

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David Vogelpohl: Hello everyone and welcome to Press This, the WordPress team podcast on WMR. This is your host, David Vogelpohl. I toughen the WordPress team by the use of my place at WP Engine, and I love to put across the best of the crowd to you proper right here each week on Press This. As a reminder, you’ll follow me on Twitter @wpdavidv, and also you’ll subscribe to Press This on Purple Circle, iTunes, Spotify, or download the most recent episodes at In this episode I’m going to be talking to any individual who moreover is helping the crowd by the use of her place at WP Engine and he or she’s going to be talking to us about how women can thrive with WordPress and technology. Turning into a member people for this conversation. I wish to welcome Sam Munoz. Sam, Welcome.

Sam Munoz: Hello thank you any such lot for having me. I’m super excited to discuss women and WordPress and tech and all the ones problems.

DV: Superb, excellent. So for those listening I’m proper right here with Sam, Sam works at WP Engine. She’s moreover the host of her private not unusual podcast known as Making Website online Magic. And what Sam is going to share in recent times are her concepts on what the history of women’s roles and technology can teach us the possibility of web development for girls searching for careers and technology and the placement of WordPress in supporting that journey. So in reality excited to have this conversation with you proper right here, Sam. And we’ll transfer ahead and kick it off with the an identical question I asked each customer Did you briefly tell me your WordPress basis story?

SM: Yeah, so once more in 2014 I think is when I in reality got into WordPress I think I kind of dabbled in it every now and then previous to that alternatively I started a blog with my cousin’s about crafting and we made up our minds to do it on WordPress and came upon all of the problems website online web hosting setup, tips on how to prepare a theme and all the ones sorts of problems. And it was once crowd pleasing on account of I in reality in reality in reality liked the working a weblog part of it and the , how are we able to make our website online look and all of that very so much a lot much less the crafting. And so, later after that, I started some other blog about children’s books and then I started some other issue and it very similar to, What would grew to transform out to be the by the use of line of all of that was once, oh, I in reality merely in reality most popular construction web websites in WordPress. And so I was running as a device developer at a bioinformatics company and I came upon that my activity was once kind of precarious. And maximum undoubtedly going to be out of place temporarily. And I made up our minds to take problems into my own arms in case you’re going to, and started a freelance WordPress trade. And that was once in January of 2018. And I merely stored going for just about 5 years and yeah, that’s that was once WordPress, correct. So I started in reality merely throughout the working a weblog space and in reality so much made up our minds it was once about the websites that I in reality liked the tech stuff, the plugins, the subjects, the development part of it that I liked most.

DV: Neatly, that’s incredible. You recognize, we’ve had a few guests over the years with similar basis stories, , being in technology, alternatively no longer necessarily in quote, web development, entering working a weblog and your sounds in reality unique. I think the most important question I’ve for you I think this entire interview was once, did you identify the crafting blog identical to the cousin cousin crafting corner?

SM: It was once DIY Merely Cuz. I was kind of proud of that

DM: Oh you most likely did get the cousin in there! Yeah. Oh, awesome. Awesome. That’s suave. So good enough, in order that you’re getting it in 2014. You’ve were given the software development background. You get began making the ones blogs and perceive you in reality enjoy the kind of crafting of the website online. Segment and come to a decision to ultimately make a profession. So help me understand what you’re doing and WP Engine like what do you do there? Yeah, so

SM: I’m the crowd manager for the developer members of the family staff. And that’s a brand new position throughout the company and in addition new for me too, so I’m kind of crafting it as I’m going. On the other hand the developer members of the family staff in reality is in a position connecting with people who use the equipment and advocating and having conversations , supplying toughen and answering questions and in reality merely cultivating a gaggle spherical WordPress, which is exciting on account of that’s something that is in reality natural for me anyway, it’s something that I’ve been doing particularly centering women throughout the podcasts that you simply mentioned. And so I’m in reality fascinated with kind of sinking my teeth into the WordPress team additional at huge and having a , broader have an effect on there by the use of WP Engine.

DV: Superb. That’s great to hear , when I joined WP Engine, I was part of the WordPress team. I was running a WordPress corporate prior to that, alternatively no longer in reality like dug in and in reality contributed in large techniques and it’s been a in reality amplifier for me in that house. I’m hoping it’s as smartly for you. You mentioned your podcast that’s making internet web page magic. Would possibly simply you briefly tell us just a bit bit about that?

SM: Yeah, so the podcast I co host it with my awesome co founder of making internet web page magic her determine’s Karen and we discuss additional of identical to the trade and product sales side of running a web design and development freelance trade particularly, over again centering women web designers, and developers. So , now we have a gaggle of people that we pull a lot of content material subject matter from and we’re talking about things like , feeling like a other people pleaser, being too pushy, raising your prices, problems that a lot of other people can connect to and relate to, alternatively we’re in reality in reality taking it from the perspective of being a lady in a additional male dominated space. And it’s it’s been amusing to have conversations with people who pay attention to the podcast and concentrate to them say, oh my gosh, I applied this tactic and abruptly, , I’m booking additional calls with other people, I’m booking additional projects. I’m feeling additional confident in my art work and that kind of stuff makes me in reality really feel so excited. So yeah, that’s what the podcast is in a position.

DV: That sounds so incredible. I didn’t get an opportunity to fully pay attention to episodes however, but it’s on my document. You guess. Positive. So let’s kind of transfer additional into the topic. We kind of wanted to point of interest spherical proper right here in recent times, which is how women can thrive with WordPress. On the other hand I’m kind of curious, like what what you’re feeling the history of women in technology could possibly teach us about how we should toughen women in technology one day.

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SM: Yeah, in order that is in reality exciting. After I went to college I went to a in reality small STEM faculty known as Harvey Mudd School in Claremont, California in our elegance was once like the principle elegance that had additional women than men. I think we’re like 50%. And I attended this match, like Grace Hopper Birthday celebration of women and computing, I think is what it’s known as. And came upon about such a large amount of women throughout the space and , there’s like at a Lovelace, Grace Hopper, and Anita Borg, and some other one that’s in reality inspirational to me is Katherine Johnson. She’s additional on identical to the NASA side, alternatively women have been a part of technology from the beginning. And so it’s sensible to continue to perpetuate that right through fashionable society, in case you’re going to. And I merely assume that the additional we will keep in mind that the roots moreover built-in women, the additional we will pull that right through, , on throughout the throughout the daily, this is sensible.

DV: So that you’re feeling just like the a lot of contributions of women and technology prior to now is a lesson to be informed regarding the longer term. And the additional it sort of feels identical to the additional women’s brains now we have running at the ones crowd pleasing problems, the additional contribution we want to solving them. On each instance you consider the tough eventualities of the former, even if, what should that teach us regarding the longer term?

SM: Yeah, I suggest on your stage, I think that it’s in reality essential to keep in mind that it’s no longer most efficient on the subject of different genders, alternatively at the entire, having a lot of viewpoints. On solving problems is powerful on account of everyone brings in a definite perspective. And because of that, we will transparent up problems additional effectively. We’ll see blind spots additional steadily. And I think that that’s in reality essential. I think that this is in reality hard, on account of with regards to women in web design and development or in tech, it feels like it’s hard to crack in or there’s a trust that it’s hard to crack in and get your first , your first footing. And so I merely in reality really feel like that’s the it’s no longer any such lot gatekeeping in case you’re going to, but it’s additional very similar to lowering the barrier to get right of entry to to allow additional women in this space. I think will also be in reality useful at the entire.

DV: So like, I suppose there’s the obvious, correct, sexual discrimination and like, being kind of brazenly bringing women down as a lesson to not do for the long term, for sure. On the other hand you then definately’re kind of moreover pointing out that like there’s entrance paths are essential. And as we recall to mind the former, there’s perceived drawback in transferring into alternatively then there’s precise drawback in transferring into. And so, it sounds reminiscent of it’s essential be implying {{that a}} lesson for the long term is to provide additional of those paths and to provide toughen for those other people. Making a leap into an area they gained’t in reality really feel at ease.

SM: Totally. And I think that that can happen every from identical to the hiring process and then moreover the retention correct, so getting women throughout the door is implausible and then moreover making them in reality really feel safe to share their opinions and , have internal problems which will also be lifting them up so that they in reality stay.

DV: I want to keep up a correspondence just a bit bit later regarding the how organizations can point of interest within the ones areas. On the other hand you kind of offered up a captivating stage spherical making women and other people of all genders in reality really feel welcome. And, , technology. Communities can kind of ebb and go with the flow and the best way superb they’re that WordPress built-in. And so I want to kind of keep up a correspondence to you about that side of it for a minute. We’re going to take our first damage, and we’ll be correct once more.

DV: Everyone welcome once more to press this the WordPress team podcast on wMR. This is your host, David Vogelpohl. I’m talking with Sam Munoz, about how women can thrive with WordPress cm correct previous to the damage you will have been talking just a bit bit about one of the vital portions of the best way the history of women in technology can teach us regarding the longer term. The belief of the kind of amplifying affect of having a lot of different viewpoints, solving problems, the contributions of women prior to now and then moreover one of the vital tough eventualities and one of the crucial the most important key tough eventualities you discussed was once this get right of entry to move which we’re gonna get to proper right here in reasonably. And I want to get to get once more to the feeling welcome phase. Do you assume , what are there a lot of digital and in person communities and WordPress? What might simply those communities or technology communities at huge do to make women in reality really feel welcomed and supportive?

SM: I think that it’s every creating a space where they in reality really feel spotted, alternatively then moreover having women and over again, a lot of voices at the entire major conversations. I think that that there’s there are times when I like , see a practice, for example, and you notice identical to the speaker’s document and it feels very one sided, in case you’re going to at least one perspective, merely , trust sensible, and so having additional women in reality in control in speaking positions in website online web hosting positions for quite a lot of problems, I think, is otherwise to make them in reality really feel welcome previous merely saying like, hello there, there’s numerous women proper right here. Does that make sense?

DV: It does it’s that belief of representation. And it makes acute sense to me on account of I interviewed Mike Liddell and Anita Carter, and Sandy Jackson, regarding the contributions and important eventualities of black team and WordPress. And that was once something they offered up as smartly. And it was once this belief that when you didn’t see any individual that you simply felt you identified with in a additional subject material approach, that it just about created this feeling of no longer feeling welcomed for you, despite the fact that the parents in attendance, , didn’t have that intent. And I don’t know if that’s that’s similar to what you’re saying, but it did resonate with me from that prior interview.

SM: Yeah. Can I say something else about that, in reality, please. So I think that what’s in reality, in reality essential and this is a private private perspective, is I in no way want to be hired on account of I’m a lady, correct? I don’t want to be hired for trust or for some quota. I want to be hired on account of I’m awesome. I want to be, , invited into a company on account of I’m great at what I do. I want to be, , booked by the use of a consumer on account of they recognize my enjoy. And I moreover happen to be a lady. And so it’s in reality about like, casting like a big enough internet. So that you in reality have a lot of other people applying for problems and then you’ll nevertheless, , hire based off the best skill alternatively then it’s essential have a quite a lot of range of other people to choose from.

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DV: And in addition you’re queuing in on a in reality essential stage proper right here, which is that as words consider tips on how to have additional a lot of representation that tokenization is something that they should consider fending off, and reasonably to forged the large internet of candidates. Are you pulling from the right or from a quite a lot of set of swimming swimming pools of audio gadget? Are you broadcasting and promoting to a lot of audiences to attract new audio gadget? The ones are the sorts of stuff you suggest by the use of casting a big internet. I don’t know if that’s true, or if you have other ideas, alternatively what do you assume on that scene?

SM: That’s totally what I’m saying reach additional other people so that additional other people provide the possibility to sit to boost their hand. On account of if we continue to just , objective one specific personnel, then that’s that’s all that can come. And over again, this that is appropriate across the board audio gadget, hiring, running your individual trade. And I think yeah, the additional we will allow merely to spread our fingers large and the right other people will come and it’ll be great on account of then we’ll have all kinds of other people in our will represent the field at huge.

DV: I can attest to that methodology, being very successful at turning in superb content material subject matter and art work and kind of strengthen good fortune casting the wider internet. Now, I think when you forged the wider internet, , there’s moreover that kind of aspect of like, good enough, smartly how are we able to how are we able to get additional women involved and contributing and technology and I’m merely curious, as we consider you kind of discussed providing those avenues by the use of providing toughen. Do you assume that web design and development represent a novel choice for girls, women wanting to be informed technology and if so, do you assume WordPress helps in some unique approach?

SM: I think it does. I think it does contribute to women, being able to over again, kind of very similar to get that get right of entry to stage because it feels very available in the market throughout the sense that like, you’ll go online and learn how to do this correct? You’ll be capable to transfer take free classes. There are so many possible choices. There’s such a large amount of mentors, that in particular women mentors, emerging in tech, which is awesome, too, on account of no longer the rest feels upper than I’ve been feeling like this person like I can, they can grasp my hand and help me by the use of throughout the studying process. And then with regards to WordPress in particular, the in particular the easiest way WordPress is moving, there are such a large amount of techniques to to be informed and what I suggest by the use of the easiest way WordPress is moving is things like block editor, whole website online editing, and so forth. That makes it over again in reality really feel just a bit bit additional available in the market to get your ft wet. And then if you want to get into the deeper code stuff, if you want to are you aware plugin development, if you want to do theme development, all of that and in reality dig into the code you’ll but it will give you an get right of entry to stage. And then you’ll transfer deeper from there and I merely I in reality like that. And over again, that applies across the board, no longer merely women in particular, anyone that wants to get into the web design and development space. I in reality assume that WordPress isn’t this type of fabulous option to merely get started.

DV: You recognize, Sam, that’s the 245 episode of this podcast I’ve done took it over from Yoast slightly a couple of years prior to now. And I’ve heard such a large amount of basis stories over the years. And in addition you’re correct about that get right of entry to stage even hooked in to your individual story and the best way you discussed that you simply had been in software development you will have been in technology. On the other hand working a weblog is what got you . Neatly in the end any individual with a non technology background can also get into all these movements in WordPress and in addition you in reality kind of painted that journey smartly that folks take which is I’m doing something for amusing or passion or regardless of it was once. And then I spotted I really like doing that issue. Merely the message I was having a look to get out. And then necessarily turning that into your profession. I suggest, it indisputably resonates for me, is that something you in finding such a lot with other people you talk over with to your podcast or differently?

SM: Positive, totally. And it’s very so much that I think that crucial issue that I concentrate is I transparent up problems for other people in my life. And because of that, I spotted hello there, I’m in reality in reality superb at this issue. And so I made up our minds to make it into trade. Like everybody comes from me when or comes to me when they would like help with X issue. And therefore, I’ve grew to transform it proper right into a trade so it’s every like from a zeal place, alternatively then moreover from like, this is merely what I naturally gravitate towards. This can be a energy. And I’m gonna glide, in case you’re going to.

DV: Yeah, I in reality most popular the best way you sometimes called out that mentorship phase earlier and I’m glad to seem it getting stronger. I’ve for sure pals who’ve benefited from that over the years, along with any individual named Ray Hoffman, who was once in reality that no technology activity the least bit was once in a very difficult spot for your life. She’s discussed this publicly. So I’m no longer like revealing new stuff. On the other hand she came upon some forums, people who had been construction it optimizing internet sites and he or she got studying and was once in a position to make a very successful profession out of it. And so I’m no longer certain if she used WordPress for that throughout the very beginning, alternatively she was once very, very technical. And so it does in reality really feel like it provides a novel path. Do you’re feeling like that mentorship side is in all probability just a bit stronger in WordPress, I’ve hung out in quite a lot of technology communities over the years and I do in reality really feel like WordPress is in reality superb about that side.

SM: Neatly, I do assume that it’s like throughout the nature of WordPress. Being open provide and easily the easiest way that it’s it fosters team, correct? We’re construction something together. And so there’s a natural dating construction that happens. And I think mentorship is just one part of that. That makes it in reality really feel similar to any individual’s welcome proper right here at WordPress.

DV: So , each so ceaselessly even if, in the ones communities and there was once even some tweets about this the day previous to our recording about and a couple of other people being lower than delightful to women in some Facebook groups. What how should team managers consider that when it occurs? And then we’ll transfer into our next damage.

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SM: That is this type of superb question. I was moreover saying similar problems available in the market. And I think that it’s in reality very similar to a subject of reminding those who what we’re doing is something that everybody has get admission to to. There is no one personnel that owns WordPress, all people do.

DV: That’s an excellent frame of mind about it and so true, and in addition you check out all the quite a lot of those who contribute and WordPress events and I think WordPress has made great strides in supporting gender selection and in selection writ huge, and I think there’s nevertheless additional art work to do and so I want to kind of bridge now into identical to the art work to do phase and in all probability it’s team organizers, alternatively I’m taking into account in all probability additional other people running corporations or teams and taking into account maximum ceaselessly about gender selection and the best way it’s essential consider coming close to that, alternatively we’re gonna take our last damage and we’ll be correct once more.

DV: Hello, everyone. Welcome once more to press this WordPress team podcast on WMR. We’re interviewing Sam Munoz about how women can thrive with WordPress Sam correct previous to the damage, we’ve been talking just a bit bit about how web design and development WordPress in particular in most cases is an overly vital get began for girls to find out technology and starting technology careers. We kind of talked just a bit bit regarding the energy of the crowd alternatively I kind of want to now shift once more to what organizations can do. And so particularly, how should organizations consider their methodology for each attracting additional women engineers to their teams, however moreover rising that skill from inside of? What what can other people be doing to energy in opposition to these effects?

SM: I in reality like this question. On account of this in reality is at the heart of one amongst my like private missions, which is seeing women no longer most efficient enter alternatively stay throughout the space. That’s the that’s the keys stay in this space and increase. And I think that it’s things like seeing women and noticing their skills and their skills. And for taking into account let’s take it from two perspectives. So we’re hooked in to pulling other people in over again, we mentioned this earlier on the podcast casting a big enough internet where it’s essential have skill across the board, paying women smartly, whether or not or no longer or no longer it’s as a company, hiring other people, or in case you’re a consumer hiring a lady Freelancer paying her smartly, on account of if we will’t handle ourselves financially, we will’t stay in this space length. And then with regards to retention, creating internal spaces where women can be themselves and in addition, I would like you you discussed essentially like instructing from inside of. I think like, over again, seeing if anyone in an organization has an passion in rising skills and noticing those strengths and then allowing them to cultivate them. I don’t even assume that that’s like a gender specific issue. I think very similar to managers seeing like, wow, this person no longer most efficient is like great at their core activity, alternatively they in reality have most of these other strengths. How can we assemble additional into that and allowing them to, , carry themselves throughout the ranks, in case you’re going to? I think that that’s in reality valuable. And I think that that’s something that merely could be helpful at the entire is having people who have other people beneath them merely noticing noticing where they’re thriving and where they’re doing smartly and then moreover listening for , the areas where they’re like, Hi, I’m anxious. I’m scared I’m anxious in the ones spaces.

DV: Yeah, that seeing noticing isn’t the an identical sentence alternatively you’re later discussed and listening, I think in reality stand out to me and then even hooked in to my own professional development, gauging engagements with women I’ve had on my staff prior to now that listening phase is so the most important, and I indisputably decide technical skill just by asking the question, it’s such crucial part of it. Obviously, hitting on the casting a big internet over again, super essential there. And then I like to you kind of underpinned the kind of paying women smartly and pay equity phase. I think that’s a component. A lot of other people don’t in reality consider quite a lot of. And, , we continuously are hiring managers missing. It’s worked at WP Engine, now we have a very balanced and honest pay development, alternatively oftentimes what’s going to happen is other people will say like, Neatly, what did you earn for your last activity and then make it just a bit bit upper? For the new offer? And also you’ll even be inheriting pay equity issues from prior employers like that. So it’s the most important issue to regulate is that around the house, what you will have been suggesting there?

SM: Totally. And I do want to say moreover in the case of like taking private accountability for advocating for ourselves. So when you’re a lady, web fashion designer, developer paying attention to this, it’s in reality , how can I make certain that I know my strengths, in reality really feel confident in my own skills so that when I transfer into, , the risk to have a brand spanking new position, or if I’m talking to a conceivable client, I know the price that I provide, and I can make certain that I’m being paid accordingly. There’s a point of , self advocacy that should be interested in that too. And over again, like spaces may make that can make that in reality really feel additional safe to do and we will moreover increase in our private self belief to transport in there and say, yep, I’m worth this. And I won’t take the rest lower than that.

DV: That’s very sound advice. I think one of the vital rampid trade drawback in freelancing is undercharging indisputably can see where when you have been kind of getting overconfidence. issues. That can be additional acute. I in reality acknowledge you kind of sharing that perspective on that. This has been extraordinarily, extraordinarily illuminating for me. And I think moreover our listeners. Yeah, this was once awesome. Thank you.

SM: Thank you any such lot for having me. I so acknowledge it. It was once an unbelievable conversation.

DV: In truth, in the end we’ll should have you ever ever once more and superb good fortune to your new activity and helping to energy WordPress forward. And when you’d like to be informed additional about what Sam is up to, you’ll discuss with to try her podcast. And of course you’ll check out her out on Twitter at HelloSamMunoz . Thanks everyone for paying attention to press this the WordPress team podcast on WMR. Over again, this has been your host David Vogelpohl. I toughen the WordPress team by the use of my place at WP Engine and I love to put across the best of the crowd to you proper right here each week on Press This.

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